Paper
Video
Nov 2022 DSys RG: HAT 
- Watch Video
Chat Log
00:15:00 Blaise Pabon: My first meeting and I didnât do the reading. That wonât happen again.
00:15:57 Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede): No problem Blaise! Happy to have you along for the ride đ
00:16:09 Blaise Pabon: Iâm super grateful to be here. My Mastodon community (hachyderm.io) is struggling with scaling PostGres so Iâm just looking for ideas.
00:17:51 Marc-Antoine Parent: @Blaise how much did you play with partitioning?
00:18:40 Philipp KrĂźger: MAV = Monotonic Atomic View
00:18:59 Zeeshan Lakhani: A good paper on looking at causal consistent CRDTs and stronger semantics on CRDTs is the cure paper https://dd.thekkedam.org/assets/documents/publications/Report/RR-8858.pdf
00:19:15 Philipp KrĂźger: "Under MAV, once some of the effects of a trans-
action Ti are observed by another transaction Tj , thereafter, all ef-
fects of Ti are observed by Tj . That is, if a transaction Tj reads
a version of an object that transaction Ti wrote, then a later read
by Tj cannot return a value whose later version is installed by Ti."
00:19:28 Marc-Antoine Parent: Thanks Zeeshan!
00:20:13 Philipp KrĂźger: Adya
00:20:49 A. Jesse Jiryu Davis: Adya: https://pmg.csail.mit.edu/papers/icde00.pdf
00:20:57 Zeeshan Lakhani: On Paxos, Heidiâs dissertation: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-935.pdf
00:21:23 Zeeshan Lakhani: Also, PWL talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqc6X3sj6q8
00:24:32 Marc-Antoine Parent: Of course thatâs more likely to be due to A/B testing :->
00:25:28 Marc-Antoine Parent: No absolute evaluation, but easy to do it relatively, no?
00:31:02 Marc-Antoine Parent: Thatâs a great question⌠is there a good distributed system test fuzzing library?
00:31:36 Blaise Pabon: +1 @Jesse ⌠itâs all fun and games until someone builds a complex system.
00:31:52 Philipp KrĂźger: @maparent I know *of* https://github.com/jepsen-io/jepsen, but have never used it
00:32:06 Marc-Antoine Parent: Thank you Philipp!
00:32:32 Philipp KrĂźger: Although that's perhaps more of a... BFT testing thing?
00:32:33 Philipp KrĂźger: not sure
00:32:46 A. Jesse Jiryu Davis: What's BFT?
00:32:52 Paul Borrill: Is Kyle Kingsbury's site still a good fuzzing library?
00:32:55 Philipp KrĂźger: Oh I meant "byzantine fault tolerance"
00:33:18 aesakamar: > Kyle Kingsbury's site
00:33:26 aesakamar: Iâve found the Jepsen stuff really cool
00:33:44 A. Jesse Jiryu Davis: No Jepsen is not aimed at BFT if I understand correctly, it's a fuzzer that tries to make a system violate its published isolation guarantees
00:34:15 Sodium : rural situations also seem like a case where availability is both Important and Potentially An Issue
00:34:42 Zeeshan Lakhani: Yep, Jepson really links to this paper in a way of making sure systems are true to their tradeoffs and choice of tx semantic levels.
00:34:48 Philipp KrĂźger: Ok, nice!
00:35:02 A. Jesse Jiryu Davis: Here's a writeup of a project I did with Jepsen: https://emptysqua.re/blog/python-paxos-jepsen/
00:35:40 Philipp KrĂźger: Oh wow. I need to look at this :)
00:35:51 Zeeshan Lakhani: +1 Jesse. Also, Kyleâs graph on consistency models is one I always go back to, to review: https://jepsen.io/consistency
00:37:54 Sodium : @Blaise rural as in you physically exist in a not well connected area. like you're on a hike in a remote location or in a cabin with a questionable connection. relying on queuing and retries in those sorts of situation seems not great for UX
00:38:15 Sodium : but also probably not strictly *avoidable* if you don't have the data locally, so
00:38:28 Blaise Pabon: Ok, so , like my old house in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
00:40:16 Blaise Pabon: Ooooh, I had not considered how to represent distributed infra in vitrina.
00:40:20 Blaise Pabon: https://vitrina.readthedocs.io/en/main/howto/consume.html#how-does-vitrina-work
00:40:22 Zeeshan Lakhani: âwas thinking about Paxos as I rode the subway home late last weekend, and as I walked the final blocks in the cold from Union Square to my apartment, suddenly it all fit together. âYes, Leslie,â I thought, âyouâre right, it really is simple.ââ Haha Jesse. Youâre making me reminisce about NYC now; also, great line.
00:40:41 Blaise Pabon: Thank you @aesakmar
00:43:11 Emma May: Oooooo, I'm gonna have to check out vitrina more! That seems super relevant to some stuff I'm working on right now
00:44:33 Zeeshan Lakhani: So, Cmeik and Heather Miller ran this workshop: https://2017.ecoop.org/series/pmldc, https://2016.ecoop.org/track/PMLDC-2016 for a couple years
00:45:08 Zeeshan Lakhani: With many of the ideas linked to this https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.07615.pdf.
00:46:18 A. Jesse Jiryu Davis: New Directions in Cloud Programming: https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.01159
00:46:42 Zeeshan Lakhani: And video for cliff notes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-_IKGvITU
00:50:41 Sodium : https://www.unison-lang.org/
00:50:56 Paul Borrill: Physicists would disagree that (a) centrally referencable clocks, and causality are not achievable in Spacetime. See https://itsabouttime.club
00:54:00 Marc-Antoine Parent: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/distrmm-long-3-25-13.pdf
00:55:24 Blaise Pabon: Donald Knuth is still working on P vs NP
00:55:57 Zeeshan Lakhani: Iâll link this elsewhere, but a notion for listing papers for 2023: https://www.notion.so/fissioncodes/Distributed-Systems-Reading-Group-2023-epoch-265f597d737243e08862e7cac2601d7e (hope this works!)
00:57:58 Paul Borrill: Anyone want to collaborate on writing a deep-thinking paper?
00:58:58 Philipp KrĂźger: fission.codes/discord/ I think?
00:59:03 Philipp KrĂźger: ugh https://fission.codes/discord/
00:59:12 Zeeshan Lakhani: For unison, the chez link pr https://github.com/unisonweb/unison/pull/3589
00:59:32 Sodium : that link works for me
00:59:45 Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede): #dsys-reqding-group channel
00:59:48 Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede): * reading
01:00:08 Sodium : fork!
01:00:10 Philipp KrĂźger: fork what you can't!
01:00:11 Sodium : fork what you can't
01:00:13 Philipp KrĂźger: :D