Fission Reactor: October 2022 Research Update


Chat Log

00:13:47	Marc-Antoine Parent:	What was the DB disagreement about?
00:15:01	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	In the Q&A? The big one was around the design of DBOS
00:15:04	quinn:	It was largely philosophical disagreement about who should be responsible for data integrity, security, etc. I think the idea of opening up data is really unintuitive and scary to people
00:15:10	quinn:	Oh that part
00:15:16	Marc-Antoine Parent:	Ah! Thanks!
00:16:41	Sodium :	rewriting all the fission infrastructure in bash >:)
00:17:04	James Walker (@walkah):	what makes you think it's not already a series of bash scripts?
00:17:31	Marc-Antoine Parent:	Er... running in the browser?
00:17:51	quinn:	bash in wasm!
00:17:54	quinn:	(jk)
00:18:01	Sodium :	well, we've got linux in the browser, so
00:18:07	James Walker (@walkah):	(or *is* she)
00:18:48	Marc-Antoine Parent:	Just wasm nush already ;-)
00:19:39	Marc-Antoine Parent:	Would love to learn more, but maybe… where is the right venue?
00:20:08	James Walker (@walkah):	The IPVM community calls are here:
00:20:16	Marc-Antoine Parent:	TY
00:20:44	Zeeshan Lakhani:	Yeah, and I’ve just read the ipfs-fan paper and have been looking at things like wasmedge too, so more to discuss there, as Blaine bashes things up!
00:22:59	Marc-Antoine Parent:	Multicast… as in everyone has everything? (Vs dht)
00:23:06	James Tolton:	IPVM?
00:23:23	Marc-Antoine Parent:	Re the multicast that Zeeshan is describing
00:23:26	James Tolton:	Internet Protocol Video Market..?
00:23:35	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	Interplanetary VM (Wasm + IPFS for distributed execution)
00:23:42	Sodium :	interplanetary virtual machine
00:23:52	James Tolton:	brilliant, thanks :)
00:23:55	Justin:
00:24:06	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):
00:24:56	James Tolton:	omg interplanetary VM,  I'm calling the future police :O :O :O y'all are wild :D
00:25:10	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	🎉🚀
00:25:17	Sodium : ?
00:26:09	Marc-Antoine Parent:	I realize I lack background on each subproject’s scope
00:27:02	Zeeshan Lakhani:	Yep, is a good primer video
00:27:37	Justin:
00:28:47	Justin:
00:30:05	Zeeshan Lakhani:	Yep, that’s the vid, thanks Justin
00:32:03	James Walker (@walkah):	Reactor is Fission speak for "slackers"
00:32:28	Sodium :	just reimagining how software ought to be structured, nbd
00:35:35	James Tolton:	is it important to understand why one attribute can have multiple values in the same materialized view?
00:36:18	Sodium : skip ratchet talk
00:36:20	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	There's a few: Updates over time (seeing the history), and lists
00:36:29	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	James Tolton 👆
00:36:53	James Tolton:	10-4
00:36:55	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	If you have a set of items in a todo list, you can model it this way, for example
00:47:27	Sodium :
00:47:46	Sodium :	Edelweiss: Automatic Storage Reclamation
for Distributed Programming (2014)
00:57:35	James Tolton:	kind of curious of how much if at all y'all have looked at some of the work the Clojure community has done on the time travelling DB problem and the problem of local data availability?  The Datomic DB has done an enormous amount of mental lifting on distributed database design like this, and it's also a distributed Datalog-based database with immutable history.
00:57:57	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	Datomic was my entry into Datalog
00:58:03	James Tolton:	worrd
00:58:05	Zeeshan Lakhani:	@James, yep, def have looked at atomic and know it well.
00:58:13	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	There's also XTDB in the Clojure world, too!
00:58:17	Zeeshan Lakhani:	datomic
00:58:18	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	Which is even closer
00:58:22	James Tolton:	Also @quinn curious if you've looked at the NEAT (machine learning) paper and their trick for comparing graph topologies using "innovation numbers"
00:58:45	James Tolton:	or any of the graphBLAS work for comparing topologies in computationally tractable ways
00:59:09	quinn:	I haven't, I'll take a look! Thank you
01:00:01	Jack Park:	XTDB bitemporal clojure DB
01:00:35	Jack Park:	XTDB uses Datalog
01:00:41	James Tolton:	I got to meet Malcom at SL22, it looks awesome -- I just wish it was web native!
01:02:10	Zeeshan Lakhani:	Ah, this is from the juxt people right?
01:02:14	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	Yup!
01:02:30	Sodium :	doesn't that also... leak what you're querying and like, let google target ads based on your queries?
01:04:46	James Tolton:	wouldn't SSL handle that concern...?
01:05:57	Sodium :	TLS handles people snooping on my query in transit, doesn't help if i'm sending my query to google or twitter or whatever for them to answer (unless you were talking about a different concern, in which case nvm me)
01:07:26	James Tolton:	Ok I must be missing something here, I'm not sure how you can send a query to a cloud provider and have them not know what the query is or what the response is.  Or why that's important?  Is that a highly requested feature or it just a cornercase that leads to leaky encryption in general?
01:07:47	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	In the current model, all queries are run on the client
01:08:06	James Tolton:	ok so this is a hypothetical RPC kind of discussion?
01:08:42	Marc-Antoine Parent:	@James : Na’s concern is that the query itself is revealing something about yourself
01:09:42	Brooklyn Zelenka (@expede):	James — So you would access encrypted data from an untrusted service, bu they don't know the content or how it's used
01:13:29	Sodium :	thanks for hosting! <3

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Resources & Notes

Early spec description with high level wording is starting to go into the Fission specs repo: Dialog Specs by expede · Pull Request #11 · fission-codes/spec · GitHub