Regarding credit in IPVM (Mutual credits, consider talking to holochain)

Developers IPVM
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It may be worth arranging to a chat with Holochain people. You’re both P2P distributed computing projects. Holochain is a genuinely parallel consensus mechanism. Fission has more insights into long-term storage (Which I think holochain needs a better approach to) and standards-setting. A beneficial exchange of ideas is fairly likely.

One thing you might find interesting is Holochain’s approach to gas fees. They use a mutual credit, which hosts gain the ability to issue in proportion to the capacity they’ve proven to have, which seems to lead to a currency that will always have a fixed value with respect to compute, where the supply increases or decreases along with the capacity of the network, a completely predictable (constant) price, which is a very good feature for a gas currency to have, as it means that a contract can know in advance how much gas it’s going to need to run.

(If you’re interested in that specifically they explain how it works fairly well here)

They also have a very good approach to identity in DeepKey. I’d want to use it everywhere.

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Deepkey is pretty much how UCAN works — pass capabilities around, multiple keys for one account. DK has a higher level account concept which you’ll see from us soon in rolling out logins.

AT Protocol (Bluesky) is a user facing account system in the wild that we like, but ultimately we’re only going to do accounts in so far as you need agents / services / apps / functions / devices / humans that need capabilities delegated.

I think there are some things to learn from Holochain (thanks for the mutual credit link). Their rewrite in rust has been a long journey.

I’d like to find one or more more “web3” partners / ecosystems to deploy IPVM networks too, as well as web2 partners who are down with Stripe payments.

AWS has a credits system…but you can’t earn from it! Getting developers paid to write and maintain functions, getting compute providers paid are two loops I want to enable.

Keep the comments coming, thank you!

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Hm, so, with UCAN’s accout system, 1) is there a custodian, other than the owner of the account, who could destroy the account through malice or negligence (ie, going out of business)? 2) if one of the account’s keys is stolen, can it alone permanently invalidate the account?

For DeepKey, the answer to both of these questions is no (if you use the right ChangeRule), which is a tricky thing to achieve, impossible without distributed consensus. Essentially, you need a system where no individual key, and also no individual host, fully controls the state.
Those features would be far less important if these infrastructures were hosted, networked and verified by governments rather than corporations or individuals. Alas.

I like Bluesky, but it fails (1). Some of my assumptions are coming from the fediverse, where provider shutdowns were common, but I could imagine if, in the future we could reach a level of seriousness where the big identity providers basically don’t have those sorts of shutdowns without notice any more, in which case (1) might not be so important I guess.

It would also be sufficient to have a mechanism by which the rest of the network can recover from sudden data losses, say, by having a bunch of operators manually vote for a consensus position about the last backed up state of the deceased server, and about where that state will live from then on (ie, who will be receiving and processing mutation orders to it).

I’d like to find one or more more “web3” partners / ecosystems to deploy IPVM networks too

Yeah, Holochain are some of my fav people in that area, personally. Though they might not let you call them “web3”, haha. They definitely are building another web (Earlier examples: Crispr OS, We. Emerging: Ad4m, Neighborhoods) and they are doing a pretty great job.

Keep the comments coming, thank you!

I think that might be all I have for now :bowing_woman: